Note: Minutes prepared by City Commission assistant Pam Brown and reproduced here in full and unchanged. Highlighting added.




SE 13 Street Median Meeting

November 9 2004

9:00 a.m.




Karl Gloekner, Eugenia Ellis, Chuck Ritchie, Cal Deal, Randy Neilson, H.Collins Forman, Jr., Chris Fertig, Hamilton Forman, Ray Dettman, Cindi Hutchinson




 Pam Brown, Peter Partington, Kathleen Gunn




Commissioner Hutchinson began the meting by suggesting the need for a compromise. She expressed hope that both parties were ready to come to the table.


Mr. Forman stated that the city does not own the median, in fact it is privately owned up to the center. Mr. Partington, speaking from an engineer’s point of view, said the median was dedicated right-of-way over which the city has jurisdiction. General discussion followed as to whether the property to the center was a public easement.


Mr. Partington passed around a plan that showed the median as it currently exists and suggested:




Mr. Deal pointed out that this had been suggested in 1995.


A discussion followed about greening the parking spaces. This only doesn’t work when the parking spaces are in use 24 hours a day and 7 days per week. Commissioner Hutchinson suggested this was only an option but worth looking at.


Mr. Ritchie summarized some of the suggestions from the last meeting:


Try to improve the traffic problems from the charter school. Parents could enter the system from Andrews Avenue to avoid the line of traffic heading from east exit through the front of the church. If the traffic was reorganized there might be no need for the parking in the median. The Episcopal Church on Oakland Blvd. St Marks has an excellent system for the traffic.


Mr. Deal suggested “pulling out” the median on both ends to calm traffic and “pulling out” the corner to a depth of 11 feet. He also suggested putting in speed humps to calm traffic. Several people mentioned the compounding problems of Broward emergency room traffic.


The discussion returned to the problem with drop-off and pick-up at the charter school. Mr. Forman said he was willing to sit down and work up better methods with Mr. Ritchie but not Mr. Deal.


Mr. Dettman asked if Mr. Foreman was willing to offer a compromise. Mr. Foreman said he might be willing to restrict the parking by gating off the median. There are two issues with parking, school activity and the use of the church at night. He said the parking spaces in the median are a good solution and there is still plenty of tree canopy and grass.


Mr. Dettman said the median was intended for green space and Mr. Foreman was not offering a compromise. Mr. Collins Forman said that the median still looked beautiful and it offered much needed parking and that the current median parking was their compromise. Mr. Dettman countered that the public was outraged that this green space was being used for private use.


Mr. Ritchie asked when the Formans would consider they had grown sufficiently. Mr. Collins Forman answered that the charter school is already at the maximum of 300. In terms of parking the current situation is acceptable although the Formans would agree to a restriction on overnight parking.


Mr. Fertig pointed out that in the city, more and more people are sharing less and less space. The church is extensively used but that is a good thing. It makes the neighborhood safer and gives a sense of community.


Mr. Deal said the parking spaces accomplish nothing. The parking lot is not being used and the neighborhood has lost the aesthetic benefit of the median. Mr. Hamilton Forman said the parking places were legally built, paid for and they’re not coming out. He addressed Mr. Deal and Mr. Dettman with the comment “I hunt, you’ve made me an enemy, and I’ll get both of you.” [Go to top of page]


Mr. Gloekner spoke on behalf of the neighborhood. He said the community is changing and diverse. The church serves a wide range of community needs. However there was a lack of communication from the church about the median. The association was not informed nor was their voice heard. Mr. Partington apologized on behalf of city engineering for the lack of communication.


Commissioner Hutchinson suggested a pilot program to grass the spaces. Mr. Deal said that the neighborhood association voted to restore the green space. Commissioner Hutchinson tried to bring the group back to a discussion of a compromise. Mr. Deal said the permit was issued illegally. Mr. Dettman asked if the Formans would remove the paving. Mr. Forman said they would not remove the spaces but would green them.


Mr. Ritchie said the application was irregular and the permit seemed thin. It didn’t appear to be a proper permit. There should be no compromise. The median should be returned to its natural setting.


The meeting adjourned without consensus.